Alfa Transaxle forum
Area Servizio => Motor i Getriba => Autor teme: kobrakai - Pon 08:34:51 05.03.2012.
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Pozdrav svima. Ja sam iz Ukrajine. Ja sam obožavatelj Alfa Romeo 75. On je uzeo auto pod restauracije u tužnom stanju. Mi trebamo vašu pomoć.
PS Pišem preko prevoditelja, ne govore hrvatski)))
Mogu napisati na engleskom jeziku.)
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I think that it's better to continue in English.. Welcome!
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hello once again. As I said before I'm from Ukraine and I'm a big fan of Alfa 75.
I have some questions because on the foro I saw people make the tricks I wanted to ask about.
Is it rational to change Twin Spark for 3.0 24 or it's better to make turbo TS. If it's better to change for 3.0, then so why?? How difficult to turbo TS.?How to make stock TS quicker?? If I take 3.0 24 with 166, then how to apply it for 75th. If it's possible could you give me the list of all the changes and the cost of that. thank you!
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this my baby :D:
http://www.drive2.ru/cars/alfaromeo/75/75/kobrakai/ (http://www.drive2.ru/cars/alfaromeo/75/75/kobrakai/)
http://www.drive2.ru/cars/alfaromeo/75/75/kobrakai/journal/288230376152811853/#post (http://www.drive2.ru/cars/alfaromeo/75/75/kobrakai/journal/288230376152811853/#post)
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Hello and welcome :bok:
ufff ... a lot of questions you're asking but I think you'll get most of the answers here :D:
let's start
How to make stock TS faster?
cheapest way is to reduce kilograms,take out everything including insulation on the floor,on the firewall ... the goal is to make the car lighter ... the lighter the car is the faster it will go
than there is the suspention and engine modifications ... this involves spending some money ... it depends on what you're trying to do with the car ... is it a race car,402m drag race or what :82:
Converting from a TS to a 3.0 V6 engine (12v,24v)
well this involves little bit of welding on a chasis engine mounts because V6 engine has to have engine mounts extended,this goes for every pertol chasis ( if you have TD chasis it's a strait bolt on situation ) ... the positioning of the engine mounts just has to be done right because it can cause problems later on ...
ok let say that you've done all the welding on the body of the car you still have to have conversion parts from an original 6C engine out of 75/GTV6 to fit 12v or 24v in the car
Is it better to have TS turbo or a V6?
well everybody has it's on opinion on this,some say TS is better cornering than a V6 others say V6 is better because it has more power and torque ... but for TS turbo ... well it can be done,but I belive it's more cheaper to convert to a V6 engine than to do TS turbo
let's say this is for start ... I'm not an expert on this but I'm telling you what I've heard from the people who have done this on the forum ... ther will be more advice later on when others see this topic and they can say their 2c on the subject
anyway ... glad to have you with us,we have friends from all patrs of the world and you are the first one from Ukraine ... so hope you enjoy your stay here and If it's possible to give you any good advice we will try ... you can comment in english no problem about that
:good:
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Yes, you are right, I should have told about the aim I’m following. My aim is city bullet-car. No drag-racing and other extreme car moments. Good fast car for the city. Just probably for drifting on holidays)).
About tuning TS. Other ECU(brains), we have a good alternative to the megasquirt and stoke (ECU) brains , it is called “January” – its’s cheap and is well-sewn. Shaft Colombo? What else? They say that it’s possible to set the knee from an engine 1.8, it is shortgoing and spinning the engine will be better, but the resource will fall down.
The first reason why I want V6 is fat cool sound! )))
Why TS turbo is better? TS turbo is 300 h.p. and a chic dirigibility. The stoke iron holds 300 h.p., but it needs pistons from BMW. Russians make such kinds of projects.
Reliably and mightily. Such kind of this measure is 5 000 $.
I am also very happy to join to You. Recently have found your site. It’s rather interesting and has many useful things, but on the other hand, it’s fully on Croatian, I hardly can understand anything. Navertheless there is something common in our languages, so some moments I understood))
Thank you, friends, I’m looking forward for your help and advice
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the best advice that I can give you is go step by step,first try TS striped out without any insulation ( less kg is allways good ) with some better suspention set up ( let's say yellow konis and polyurethane bushes if the roads are shit,or B6 Bilstein shocks and polyurethane bushes if the roads are good ) ... it's gonna be loud inside but that's the fun :D:
latter on you can do all kinds of combinations ... here we tend to do all kinds of transaxle combinations ... stock TS with better suspention,TS stripped with 1.6 gearbox with LSD,3.0V6 12v or 24v with TS gearbox including LSD,and we have one combination that involves 3.0 V6 24v with 1.8T gearbox
all of this combinations have proved to be ok ... they are all fast cars in their own way ... but the down side is that all of this combinations after few years tend to brake 5000 euros investment so it's up to you to decide how much money you want to spend
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:mah: nice car! :super:
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As Z3kan told you, cheapest way is stripping down TS, converting gearbox to shorter one 4.55:1 (from AR 75 1.6) and packing LSD instead of open diff. Lightening of front flywheel will give you some good results in 1st and 2nd gear.
For drifting, 75 will need first of all a pretty serious suspension mods. If you decide to boost TS, there are dished pistons from AR 33 1.5 which will give you lower CR. -Haven't measured it - you'll have to check that out. Turbo charging is serious and takes a lot of money + work.
On the other hand, if there are available 75 V6's, you might take one as a donor car for transplant. If you decide to go for 24v, it's better to stick with AR164 24v as it is a lot more doable.
Here is a list of mods required for V6 transplant (if you don't understand some words, ask...) :
http://alfa75.net/forum/index.php?topic=27.msg86#msg86 (http://alfa75.net/forum/index.php?topic=27.msg86#msg86)
Edit: Thank you Jesus for reminding me :)
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Tell me, is there an accurate amount of conversion in the Twin Spark 3.0 24v?
I’ve got an 2.5 24v engine, it will be difficult to fit in because of an electronic throttle, and I can’t understand how to attach it
As for gearboxes, I mean mixes with gearboxes. Is it all been tried and tested? Where I can see all the features of what happened as a consequence of these manipulations. If I understand correctly, when I put on a short gearbox 1.6. the acceleration of machine will be faster, but why? Correct me if I understand something wrong: short gearbox means that the 1st transmission will be up to 40 km/h, the second up to 80 km/h and so on, and on the standard gearbox TS 1st transmission up to 60 km/h and the second is up to 100 km/h, right?
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If you think inject 2.5 24v electric throttle is not a problem, you need a pedal with the installer and put it on this site, but the problem all the other parts of V6 75, a sump, engine mounts bell, shaft, flywheel starter. :super:
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What about the 2.0 V6 turbo? or still better to put 3.0 24v?
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Best remake of a 3.0 24v, and that's the cost of 5000eur, with brakes and Koni suspension-type or B6 http://alfa75.net/forum/index.php?topic=43.0 (http://alfa75.net/forum/index.php?topic=43.0) ;)
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http://alfa75.net/forum/index.php?topic=867.0 (http://alfa75.net/forum/index.php?topic=867.0) runners in our version of the fastest and best with the best suspension parts for this car but you have to pay about 7000eur
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Tell me, is there an accurate amount of conversion in the Twin Spark 3.0 24v?
I’ve got an 2.5 24v engine, it will be difficult to fit in because of an electronic throttle, and I can’t understand how to attach it
As for gearboxes, I mean mixes with gearboxes. Is it all been tried and tested? Where I can see all the features of what happened as a consequence of these manipulations. If I understand correctly, when I put on a short gearbox 1.6. the acceleration of machine will be faster, but why? Correct me if I understand something wrong: short gearbox means that the 1st transmission will be up to 40 km/h, the second up to 80 km/h and so on, and on the standard gearbox TS 1st transmission up to 60 km/h and the second is up to 100 km/h, right?
For every V6 conversion, you will first need parts from rwd V6: Oil sump, flywheel, starter motor, bell for third engine mount, engine mounts, oil pump, headers etc etc... Some of them you can fabricate, but most of them not. Oil sump from old V6 wont fit to 2.5 24v, but you will probably manage somehow and weld a new one. The best way, as I told you is to go with 3.0 from AR164 and donor parts from any rwd V6 Alfa.
Shorter gear ratio gives the agility and flex to the car at low speeds, most of drifting is at speeds up to 100km/h. You won't be able to run it in second gear on original gearbox and third will be too long for required power. I'm driving 4.3:1 gear ratio (and thats from regular 1.8IE) on my 3.0 24v. First gear speed is about 65km/h at 7000rpm and second is 105km/h at 7000 rpm, compared to my friend which drives same engine, but with 4.1:1 gear ratio, I'm a bit faster on track. If you're setting up a car for fast track with average speed above 110km/h, then I would leave original gearbox.
Speed of a car is not only from 0-100km/h. :D:
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first you have to say what budget you have? is it 500€ or 5000€?
then we need to know if there is any RWD V6 you can take parts from?
you can build a cheap 3.0v6 12v engine or you can go for the more expensive 24v engine. most expensive and most unreliable would be a TS turbo, but i guess the most fun too.
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why is the best option from the 164th Alfa Romeo? Fact on 3.0 24v engines that are installed on the 166-th AR, there are no problems with the timing belt tensioner (manual costs)
and drive the oil pump (replaced by the chain). injection system of an older 164 (3 nozzles operate at once) and problem (mechanical flow meter, FW,
terribly deficient rollers and belt tensioner). On new engines a problem - an electronic pedal and throttle. Parts for 156 th, 166 th motors are purchased easily and naturally as opposed to 164.
As for gear ratios, you will not forget that you have 3.0 24v engine and free spins to 7000 rpm, and I have a TS and it is already at the cutoff 6200))) I understand that speed is limited to 100 km, but the city is the speed limit)
Regarding the budget, say so. I have my workhorse Opel Astra 2005 this 9000 $) but its still not going to sell as not to drive what will be. before that I had a 5000 $ on turbo TS project, but plans have changed since my wife and I are waiting for the baby.))
What about spare parts with 75th V6, and some of them can be found in my town, and some parts have to look for. Nevertheless they diffitsit, you did a lot of them?) have regard to parts of the engine Alfa Romeo 75 3.0 V6, this is a big problem. On a whole bunch of TS.
What does it mean to make a cheaper 3.0, 12 or 24c more expensive? the price of these engines have one. The number of alterations that have to do long installation
These engines are also one. what sense then to put a weaker engine when for the same money, you can put a more powerful)))
Yes, friends, and you can show photos of the alterations in the engine compartment that are needed for installation Busso. Thank you)
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(http://piccy.info/view3/2312096/3a81486d184843606a14a4c5186278a7/orig/)
http://piccy.info/view3/2312096/3a81486d184843606a14a4c5186278a7/orig/ (http://piccy.info/view3/2312096/3a81486d184843606a14a4c5186278a7/orig/)
this is my wife with AR 75 my good friend :D:
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([url]http://piccy.info/view3/2312096/3a81486d184843606a14a4c5186278a7/orig/[/url])
[url]http://piccy.info/view3/2312096/3a81486d184843606a14a4c5186278a7/orig/[/url] ([url]http://piccy.info/view3/2312096/3a81486d184843606a14a4c5186278a7/orig/[/url])
this is my wife with AR 75 my good friend :D:
Hmmm.... :hm:
Nice rims !!! :respekt:
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injection system of an older 164 (3 nozzles operate at once)
This is not important at full open throttle and who gives a damn about economy at low rpm? :zvizd: Old MAF can be a problem, but still, it can be found as a good used item. Check prices for servicing newer engine, what are the costs of water pump, rollers, tensioners... Parts for older 24v are available and not so hard to find.
Input price for older 24v is much lower (I'm writing on my own experience of building my car in Serbia).
You asked about opinions, we gave you some. It's up to you and your money...